tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post7616880812056772831..comments2024-03-12T07:00:44.143-04:00Comments on CHILDMYTHS: Examining Unconventional Theories: More on the "Primal Wound"Jean Mercerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14619393019771381980noreply@blogger.comBlogger134125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-71237816059943436312019-06-08T20:36:04.992-04:002019-06-08T20:36:04.992-04:00I am revisiting my original comment. It's now...I am revisiting my original comment. It's now 4 years later. I would love if someone could reply to this question. I am genuinely curious. My son is now seven. He still has huge problems with regulation. His bio mom has been in jail for years. My original comment still stands. I look forward to hopefully hearing from your readers. I will also say that this entire thread is extremely depressing. As an adoptive mom I know my son is better off with us then he ever would have been with his addict birth mom, and his unknown birth father. But all these adoptees seem so angry. I find it extremely discouraging. We have taken on a very hard life. Raising a substance exposed child is extremely hard. But I don't regret a second. I feel like so many here are so angry they've been adopted. I also know there are plenty of well adjusted adoptees and the research supports that. Thank you for all you do Dr. Mercer. You are a huge help to me and I appreciate all you do. Kerrydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03106055234710598009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-72716869880397089492018-01-06T11:19:12.394-05:002018-01-06T11:19:12.394-05:00Why was I sarcastic 7 years ago? I don't reall...Why was I sarcastic 7 years ago? I don't really recall, but I think it's a mistake to assume that only the egregiously emotionally wounded will be devastated by infidelity, that devastation proves a person is emotionally wounded, and that that notional wound was caused by some specified event in the past. This is really reminiscent of the argument of wandering spouses in the '70s, that the betrayed person would not be so upset if it weren't for his or her own emotional problems, therefore the wanderer was not responsible for the pain.Jean Mercerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619393019771381980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-17015976628682944292018-01-03T17:37:22.640-05:002018-01-03T17:37:22.640-05:00The above poster never mentioned anything about in...The above poster never mentioned anything about infidelity not affecting non-adoptees. I am not sure what warrants your (mostly) sarcastic reply re: this person's personal observation on relating to the what he or she read in the Primal Wound.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-74206004709144584332017-02-25T17:20:05.404-05:002017-02-25T17:20:05.404-05:00Yes, open adoptions show something important, but ...Yes, open adoptions show something important, but actually so do "regular" family lives, where young children are attached to both parents, maybe a grandparent, brothers or sisters. The PW is, I think, based on the very old idea that attachment is to only a single person. John Bowlby thought that, but it has not proven to be true.... Thanks for this story, and good luck to your family!Jean Mercerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619393019771381980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-66937691911841133282017-02-24T11:52:40.890-05:002017-02-24T11:52:40.890-05:00I wonder how believers in the Primal Wound Theory ...I wonder how believers in the Primal Wound Theory view open adoption scenarios. I recently read about this theory and it shook me to my core as an adoptive parent of a 2 1/2 year old. I can only offer anecdotal information, but I thought I'd share my story. I took in the neglected son of my brother's girlfriend after she had passed him around from house to house for months. He was 7 months old when I took him in. She did care for him for the first month or two of his life, then decided she'd rather go to the beach and amusement parks than be a mom. He lived with probably a dozen different family members until I offered to babysit him for a week or two, which led to months and months. Finally I told her that I'd fallen in love with him and asked to adopt him, which relieved her a great deal. My little guy experienced some delays. It took him longer to walk and talk than most children his age, but he attached to my spouse and especially me in a short period of time. He sees his biological mother maybe once every few months. I can honestly say that he doesn't seem to have any kind of mystical, subconscious spiritual bond with her. He treats her exactly like every other non-biologically related person in the room. He clearly has a stronger bond with me and prefers me above all others. To my son, I am his parent. He doesn't seem to feel anything for her at all. I would think that if the primal wound was a real thing, wouldn't a child this young feel it especially strong? I'm not saying he won't ever feel sadness about being rejected by her, but it won't be because of this supposed magical bond. I think the best way to prove that this theory is just psychobabble is to look at children from open adoptions. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-60004821988508385972016-11-19T09:49:12.862-05:002016-11-19T09:49:12.862-05:00Thanks very much for your comments! You are probab...Thanks very much for your comments! You are probably right about the Google search, but I can assure you that a search of professional journals would show little or nothing about the PW.Jean Mercerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619393019771381980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-43493255207090977312016-11-18T16:16:23.579-05:002016-11-18T16:16:23.579-05:00Jean, I'm an adoptee, white male 49 years old....Jean, I'm an adoptee, white male 49 years old. Adopted soon after birth. I have trouble with forming love relationships. I am reading through all these responses to what you say about PW, and agree with you. There is so much to say and explore. PW theory is so pervasive its hard to find anything in a Google search about adult adoptees and relationships that doesn't base itself off PW. I will continue to read your blogs and THANK YOU for suffering the attacks of the sentimental, not scientifically inclined. <br />David Russell<br />Blue Bell PAAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04981024968627035013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-65571463759836356952016-05-19T08:27:14.254-04:002016-05-19T08:27:14.254-04:00Dear Anon-- you are right that there is good reaso...Dear Anon-- you are right that there is good reason for some sadness for all three of the people you mention, not to speak of brothers, sisters, and fathers. Any thinking person would find it melancholy to think about what might have been and to realize the unhappy circumstances that created what is. But the PW idea suggests that unhappiness is created for the adoptee when he or she is separated from the birth mother and is caused by grief over that loss. The two things are very different, and it seems to me that the circumstances you talk about are quite enough to explain your state of mind. It's not necessary to posit a PW in the way that Verrier does.<br /><br />When I say there is no PW, that does not mean that I am denying the special concerns that go along with adoption and that are different from the concerns within birth families.Jean Mercerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619393019771381980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-39427992728950110902016-05-19T04:28:44.685-04:002016-05-19T04:28:44.685-04:00It's sad for all three. Adoptive mum struggled...It's sad for all three. Adoptive mum struggled to have kids. Totally understands what adoptive had to go through to make decision hard as it is to give up their own child. And the difficulties when the children have different genetic footprint which is expressed in personalities, iq and behaviour. I met my birth mum and half sister. I am JUST like them and nothing at all like my own family. But my adoptive mum will always be my mum. She did all for me and I am forever grateful for her unending love and patience. I will always feel the PW. The fear of rejection. The fear of not being good enough. And the fear of being totally alone. My whole childhood I knew something wasn't right. Even though I knew I was adopted from the minute I could understand. there was always something. Every birthday I had sadness. I knew there was someone out there who loved me so much to give a chance at a better life. And my own mum, who loved me so much, she tried to give me what she thought I wanted. And myself, so sad at never truely being understood but wanting to make my special mum happy all the time so she'd love me. The PW exists. anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15443822349402882002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-63369948928140661252016-02-03T09:21:09.148-05:002016-02-03T09:21:09.148-05:00The problem is, what you state as fact about the n...The problem is, what you state as fact about the newborn recognizing the mother is not actually fact. But if believing in the PW helps you, I can't argue with that.Jean Mercerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619393019771381980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-11858988212457931152016-02-02T12:30:39.629-05:002016-02-02T12:30:39.629-05:00As someone who lives with an adoptee, my husband, ...As someone who lives with an adoptee, my husband, I whole heartedly believe in Nancy's theory. His adoptive parents didn't do anything right by him, got him diagnosed with something he didn't have, put him on medication at an early age, then kicked him out of the house at 12. He was what Nancy described as agressive and disruptive.Yet, when he got in contact with his biological family, he become a fully functional person, barely had a temper, actually felt left. I want to point out his bio mother didn't give him up willingly. Child services took him out her care at a year old because of false statements. It makes sense that there would be a wound as a child automatically knows who it's mother is at birth. A child know it's mother's scent,voice etc. I want to know why you completely disregard those facts. A baby spends 9 months in a womb getting used to certain aspects of its mother. Case in point, my children instantly knew their mother and would cry when they were out of my arms. My youngest daughter wouldn't even sleep if she wasn't near me. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-51580514050537739022015-10-24T22:01:36.276-04:002015-10-24T22:01:36.276-04:00Can someone explain to me why my son would have be...Can someone explain to me why my son would have been better off with his bio "mother" who chose to do methamphetamine daily for the entire pregnancy, drink alcohol, do heroin and smoke? A woman with extreme mental health issues..A woman who overdosed while pregnant. Because I tell you what..he would have not stood a chance. No other family was interested in raising him. My son is a mess from her selfish choices. She had already had two other children she had parental rights terminated on as well. He has a great life and while that may sound arrogant I don't mean it that way. To.her he was trash, thrown away, a problem. To us he is our greatest joy. He is cherished beyond measure. He has huge problems. His nerves are a mess. He has needed intense parenting, therapies, therapeutic preschool etc. Thank you for writing this article. If you look on the reviews on Amazon there are many adoptees who think this whole theory is insulting. I highly doubt a child adopted as a newborn is going to be guaranteed 100% messed up as she says. Our agency told us 100% of adoptees have abandonment issues. I get that..but who doesn't have issues? I have abandonment issues as I grew up in a typical dysfunctional family. We know our son will most likely have some issues from being adopted and we will love and support him through them. But not to this extent! . <br />You know what's even more tragic? A child who is unwanted and living with an addict. Now that is truly something to grieve. Kerrydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03106055234710598009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-52822013609637873492015-09-12T18:39:48.927-04:002015-09-12T18:39:48.927-04:00What is the research you mention?What is the research you mention?Jean Mercerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619393019771381980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-24144502120949539942015-09-12T11:57:18.352-04:002015-09-12T11:57:18.352-04:00I find that your assumptions that Nancy and her Pr...I find that your assumptions that Nancy and her Primal Wound theory is wrong almost offensive. I am 53 years old and I have experienced much of what she has said. Being yanked away from a birth mother I liken it to someone being kidnapped from the US and brought to Palestine. An environment that is unknown, food, smells and everything else that is unfamiliar. It is traumatizing. And if you don't think so that's fine. But research that being to occur before you were even born reaches the same conclusions Nancy does. So move to Palestine and let me know how you make out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-58227770018546034902015-07-09T17:52:03.603-04:002015-07-09T17:52:03.603-04:00Dear Anonymous-- thank you so much for your very a...Dear Anonymous-- thank you so much for your very articulate account of your history and the conclusions you are drawing from it. It is so nice to read the comments of someone who does not regard this discussion as some sort of "fight to the finish".<br /><br />Your point about understanding adoptees' later lives is an extremely important one. Unfortunately, the longitudinal studies that are uncovering some information about adoptees' development began only about 20 years ago, so we still have little systematic data about the possible impact of adoption on life during maturity. I want to point out, too, that as the nature of adoption has changed in many ways in the last century, it may always be difficult to compare the effects of adoption as it took place at time X to the effects of adoption as it took place at time X plus 10 years. Anyway we certainly can't do that now.<br /><br />As for your particular case, which you described so vividly, I feel much sympathy, but I have to ask you whether you think that your marriage experience would NOT have devastated a woman who had not been adopted. Also, why do you think that a man who was struggling with his own nature did not in fact value you for your true self-- simply because he valued his own needs more in the long run, as many people have done? And why would you think you should have been able to detect this possibility, when the chances are that he could not do it himself? The answers to these questions may be very intimate matters, and I am not asking you to tell me-- only saying that unless you have some very clear evidence that he was using you, it's possible that he did not originally intend to do so, whatever happened in the long run. (In my own family I have seen a case of a gay man who fell in love with, married, and had a child with a woman, then could no longer resist his own impulses-- they divorced but remained very fond of each other until he died. Was he "using" her to try to change himself? I don't think so, but I can see how his actions could be interpreted that way.)<br /><br />It seems to me, too, that by focusing on the hypothetical "primal wound" you are ignoring many other background factors that may interfere with your relationships. Your mother sounds like a lovely woman, but from what you say she was not able to give you a model of successful marriage and complex family life. Your birth mother's story seems oversimplified-- do people give up a loved child because the child is "where she needs to be"? In both mothers' cases, there is that narrative of sadness which is at the beginning of every adoption, which I wrote about recently at http://childmyths.blogspot.com/2015/07/more-nancy-verrier-or-dont-say-aint.html. Are these issues of sadness not sufficient to explain much of your difficulty in relationships and your sense that you must comply in order to be acceptable-- a sense that is probably shared by most women at least until menopause? Why ignore those issues and focus on a problem that is not only hypothetical but whose existence is contradicted by most of what is known about early development? <br /><br />I hope you will read that recent blog post and see whether you can reinterpret some of your feelings according to some other possible organizing points, and I'd like very much to hear from you about what you think of those alternative ideas. <br /><br />Best regards,<br />Jean<br /><br />Jean Mercerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619393019771381980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-75702866794091520152015-07-08T12:45:19.311-04:002015-07-08T12:45:19.311-04:00I was adopted and had a good experience. My mother...I was adopted and had a good experience. My mother never lied to me about it, and she never made me feel I was less of a daughter to her than if she had given birth to me. She told me my birth mother had given me up because she wanted the best for me, not because I was ever unwanted. She told me she believed God had meant us to be together. <br /><br />I believed that I was just as loved and wanted as any other child. I still do. My adoptive mother's love for me is real and sincere and in many ways I've been luckier than a lot of kids, adopted or not. I've been generally successful in life, no drugs, I'm financially solvent, I have many good friends. <br /><br />I was married to a man I believed was perfect for me, and I have a beloved and wonderful daughter. I met my birth mother several years ago and she is supportive and a nice person. She confirmed that she loved me and only gave me up because she believed I was where I needed to be.<br /><br />But. My husband left me for another man. And my life fell apart. I've been struggling ever since to work out why I'm unsuccessful in adult, intimate relationships. In my 20s I never even dated, and when I did find a man who wanted me, I was unable, apparently, to distinguish between someone who wanted me for me, and one who wanted me to hide his true self. <br /><br />I've taken a long hard look at myself and realised I have (and have likely always had) some severe problems with self-esteem, with emotional availability, fear of abandonment, and the tendency to be a caregiver in order to get security in a relationship and avoid rejection. I've started reading other adoptees' accounts, and the feeling of never quite believing you matter to someone, of never quite fitting in, and struggling with adult relationships really resonates with me. This despite the fact that I had a secure and strong attachment to my mother, who adopted me when I was 2 weeks old, from the maternity hospital. <br /><br />So although I don't want to fall for an unscientific theory, I find it interesting that other adoptees who had non-abusive, loving adoptive homes had similar experiences. <br /><br />Now, my mother was in a horrible marriage when she adopted me, and she had suffered terribly from wanting a child and not having one. She left my father when I was 2. She was a devoted, sensible mother who was affectionate without being clingy, but she was hurting and I know I was the one thing in her life she felt happy about. <br /><br />So whether it's the PW, a tiny infant's need for security that they instinctively meet through quietness and compliance, whether growing up with a narrative where to truly love someone means to abandon them, whether it's having somehow picked up on the bad vibes from an emotionally abusive and distant father even though I was too young to remember him, I don't know. I do know that there was a story about my adoption being a wonderful thing, and I know that I spent a good deal of my life making sure that I lived a life that would prove to everyone that my mum had done a good job and there was nothing wrong with us. <br /><br />I feel that if I'm ever to have a successful relationship I need to understand what pushed me to make such damaging, stupid choices. The fact that Verrier's book resonates so much with so many adoptees makes me think that even if her organising theory is wrong, there may be a phenomenon here that someone should try to explain, no? <br /><br />One question I have about adoption studies is when they end. If adopted children are just as likely to be well-adjusted in their teens, but many of those who relate to the PW are much older (I'm 44 and have only just begun to question whether I'm really all that well adjusted), wouldn't those studies miss something important? Especially if extreme compliance or foreclosure is an adopted child's way of ensuring they won't get abandoned another time?<br /><br />Sorry to comment anonymously, but this is all a bit personal for me and I don't want my family reading this just yet. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-18038998977583094012015-06-13T10:10:08.085-04:002015-06-13T10:10:08.085-04:00Okay-- what do you think the mechanism for such a...Okay-- what do you think the mechanism for such a connection would be?Jean Mercerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619393019771381980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-9897827065415357902015-06-12T23:00:37.538-04:002015-06-12T23:00:37.538-04:00With the following quote you put PW and telepathy ...With the following quote you put PW and telepathy in the same boat, as if telepathy is not only likely what Verrier was implying, but the only likely thing worth mentioning.<br /><br />Quote:<br />Is it the “psychological connection” mentioned by Verrier, which she says is not severed with the umbilical cord? What was that connection? Are we actually talking about a telepathic communication between mother and baby, as posited by the ‘50s psychoanalyst Nandor Fodor?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-79487685314083318812015-06-10T09:59:21.507-04:002015-06-10T09:59:21.507-04:00If you'll look at what my post said-- I didn&#...If you'll look at what my post said-- I didn't attribute this belief to Verrier's book, but to Nandor Fodor. It is also held by various APPPAH members who are great PW supporters. Can you propose any more sensible mechanism for the connections Verrier says exist?<br /><br />As for agendas, I think it's plain enough-- I consider it important to debunk bunk. If you mean, do I have some alternative belief system I'm selling-- no, I don't. What is your agenda?Jean Mercerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619393019771381980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-47893286679152114312015-06-09T19:17:18.728-04:002015-06-09T19:17:18.728-04:00There's nothing in that book that reads like t...There's nothing in that book that reads like telepathy, doctor. Please do cite a passage. I would hate to be lead astray by someone with an agenda.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-35010806306860227942015-06-08T09:20:24.007-04:002015-06-08T09:20:24.007-04:00Is "being desperate to" the same as want...Is "being desperate to" the same as wanting to? I want to debunk things that are incorrect and potentially harmful, that's why I want to debunk the PW.Jean Mercerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619393019771381980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-43696465119749004572015-06-07T20:33:04.879-04:002015-06-07T20:33:04.879-04:00I'm an adoptee. 10 years ago PW was the first...I'm an adoptee. 10 years ago PW was the first time I ever read anything that described my experience back to me. I wonder why you are so desperate to debunk this book. I mean - telepathy?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-45755575163478719022015-05-25T10:13:01.612-04:002015-05-25T10:13:01.612-04:00Moi?Moi?Jean Mercerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619393019771381980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-44847499647960925082015-05-24T22:07:58.084-04:002015-05-24T22:07:58.084-04:00Jean...are you for real.....a real professional or...Jean...are you for real.....a real professional or some Crack pot speaking on the soapbox????Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03974468069061091439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2743746633913926150.post-36865315647462063342015-03-06T13:16:00.463-05:002015-03-06T13:16:00.463-05:00That's a pretty heavy statement to make about ...That's a pretty heavy statement to make about somebody who disagrees with you on facts, don't you think?Jean Mercerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14619393019771381980noreply@blogger.com